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Guess it’s just me… oh well.

I’m sorry OLahav and it’s surprising that such an interesting and meaningful topic escaped the attention of one and all. However, a similar innovative topic – Life in one sentence – does exist in the community Inspirational Thoughts, where u will find several interesting ideas posted by many learnhubbers. It wud be graet if u put ur ideas there!

I would like to assure you that it’s not just u, but this quest and struggle to find the answer to such questions, as have been posted by you on this discussion forum, is inside every thoughtful human being. And as I inderstand it, this quest is going since time immemorial. Several philosophers, religious leaders, schools of thoughts, leading brains etc. etc. have tried to find the answers according to their own life experiences and perceptions. Sometimes, going thru’ such vast collection of wise thoughts answers many of ur queries but I think it can never really satisfy you. The real satisfaction to this quest, this struggle, I believe, can only come thru’ one’s own life experiences, perceptions and the level of wisdom, sense of peace and bliss attained by you. One life time, however, may not suffice to attain that goal of real/ultimate/absolute satisfaction, peace, wisdom and bliss. However, I believe, our goal/purpose in this human life is to keep striving to attain that GOAL. I believe that the work done in this life time towards that end/purpose, though uncomplete, would be carried forward to your next life to take it closer to your GOAL.

May God bless ALL to attain that.

oLahav,

I think I’m as interested in these questions as you are. As nihilistic as it is wondering if there’s a point to anything at all in this life, I think what pushes us forward is creating a purpose for yourself in life. There is no meaning to anything if you choose it to be so – at least that is what I have learned so far.

So many days in our lives we feel as if the menial tasks we do contribute nothing significant – after all, aren’t we little blips of time within this universe? There is so much that is incomprehensible in this life. Perhaps overwhelming ourselves with trying to comprehend the incomprehensible will only drive us to insanity.

Maybe the meaning of life is to find passion. You need something to motivate you. I tend to notice that the people who live the longest are the ones who are vibrant and try to be excited about what they’re doing. If you’ve got no passion, you are as good as dead inside.

I think you should just be heading towards something in life which you believe is good. If you say the word “idea” 2000 times it doesn’t even look like a real word anymore. The word “idea” loses its meaning because you have detached yourself from its meaning. Once you regain your sense of what an “idea” is, then the word “idea” has meaning once again. I think this can correlate somehow to anything that is supposed to have a “meaning”.

I believe that asking for the meaning of life is somewhere along the lines of asking who created the universe (although people ask that as well.) Assuming by “universe” we mean the term in the most ubiquitous sense as one would say “existence,” the act of creation and the entities that do them are part of it. Everything is part of existence; it has no outside justification, no outside creator. The creator would by definition be part of it.

In the same way, the ideas of meaning, value, purpose, good, etc. etc. all exist within the context of life. Life, as the only entity in the universe the existence of which can ultimately end and which can act to further its existence, is the fundamental basis on which we evaluate purpose. Nothing broader than life can really have purpose. Existence as a whole doesn’t care what anyone does. Our purposes should all be rooted to a system of values, which we should create based on the needs of one’s life and happiness. Life doesn’t have a meaning; life is the meaning.

Uh… mistakenly double posted so I edited this in as a replacement!

Same for this! Sorry! I was having serious password issues and it somehow caused this. Long story.

Thanks for the comments!

rkmittal- I think I agree with you. I also like to think that there’s an ultimate goal, although I’m not sure what it is. But I don’t want to believe life just throws us to go through a journey with no point at the end of it, you know? There’s got to be something.

Tiffany- maybe you’re right about your point about passion. I have no passion and I feel pretty dead inside. But if we chose to give things meaning or not, does that mean (no pun intended) that there is no ultimate truth to life? It’s all relative to one person’s point of view?

Derick- “Life is the meaning” is a deep idea. But when you say nothing broader than life can have a purpose, I get the feeling that you look at the world as “your world” relative to you only. Anything else you don’t know about is irrelevant, any other life cannot extend beyond your own because when you die, your existence dies. Is that right, or am I misinterpreting things? And if it is right, wouldn’t there be no point of affecting other people? I may be totally of your point though, sorry if I am.

Hi everyone here and around, this is my first day inside learnHub and I will try to honour the responsability.

The meaning of life is without doubts one of those “big questions” that philosophers (and comedians also, you surely know the movie “The meaning of life” by Monty Phyton too, right?!) are trying to answer since centuries ago. Still today.

One idea of mine is that also inside the philosophical area it is possible to distinguish between micro and macro worlds, micro and macro systems, having both of them the same natural laws. Just like in the smallest so just the same in the biggest. Just like in the deepest so just the same in the highest. Same rules.

One example: can you see one physical human body? It has so many organs and vital functions working all together for the health and the life of the whole body. Each organ has its own peculiar and particular use and purpose, working with it for the general function. In the same way it could be that each single individual human being is not working for its single life only (and it is still good if they do like that) but also for the general life of the whole human beings as a group, as a genre, as the full body of humans.

In this new view it will be not possible to say “I got my goal” if we alone, if not caring also for the other brother and sister around us. A human body and organism will be not able to survive if one only single organ will fail with illness.

Some one here wrote about life itself with its own meaning. It could be still possible to find a certain kind of “evolution” with life, both as a single human being in this planet or as a whole general group of the human beings all together.

Evolution means changes, new values and new consciousness, new thoughts and new feelings, different from those of people of hundreds years ago, hopefully “better ones”, when talking about “quality” of them.

I like much the novels of Robert M. Pirsig, he wrote two well known books in Usa, concerning illness and the search for “quality” inside things around us. The search for a better quality inside things just like the finding of an evolution of things and of life.

One last idea: what if the search of the meaning of life will find larger borders so larger than our single short life of this single life? What if the meaning of life will find harmonius place inside a long-term eon of time?

Thank you for your attention and please forgive my mistakes with my english language.

Marco

Rkmittal,

thank you for your ideas and concepts of “true self” and “illusive self”, that should be possible to identify and separate specially during a good meditation session (maybe it is also true that good things will not arrive in a sudden but alfter a life-time practise).

Becoming engrossed in the one undivided supreme consciousness is (in my opinion) a real possibility, a freedom of choice, good will, practise and free choice that is offered to each human being. Also it is important to notice that living inside and amongst material world is giving to each single human being the real experience of separation and of individuality. Maybe it has still a purpose, for example to keep individual consciousness when moving between the two extremes of a pendulum moving all times.

Marco

There’s a film by Ingmar Bergman called “To Joy”. In one part a couple talks about life and meaning:

Marta: There’s so much misery, laxity and indifference, in body and mind. In the end you don’t believe in anything. You think that’s how it is. That’s the whole meaning.
Stig: There doesn’t have to be a meaning.
Marta: Yes, there must be. If there isn’t you make one up. Otherwise you can’t live.

Thought you might find it interesting.

I fond the Martha and Stig conversation pretty interesting, thanks for posting it.

I think a lot of people live their lives from day to day not worrying about meaning or anything… they’ve got their jobs, families, whatever. They don’t ask themselves, “ok, what’s the meaning of life?”. They don’t worry about doing the right thing, or fate and free will. They just live. I wish I was like that, but I always overanalyze everything… is it meaningful for me to do something? Is it going to have any impact whatsoever? Is it the right thing to do?

Maybe the meaning of life is the act of living. It doesn’t matter if you’re aware of it or not, you just live, and that’s it, who cares about the rest? I mean, it help to think there’s an ultimate purpose to every human being and that we’re all walking towards something, but maybe that’s not entirely true. Maybe there isn’t a purpose, you just do what you can and whatever happens happens.

@ rkmittal – thank you for that insight, rkmittal! I always love hearing what you have to say. You’re right, finding a meaning is beyond the primitive senses, I think. If we get too caught up in what is fleeting and unimportant, we disregard what the long-term holds for us.

@oLahav – it’s true, I find that many people keep themselves busy in order to keep from bad thoughts. I find it pretty true – if you find other things to think about, you won’t think about the meaning of life and agonize over it so much. I tend to overanalyze everything as well – I don’t necessarily see that as a fault. You can use that to your advantage. How, I’ve yet to figure out…

Well, the answer to your question (er not really phrased as a question but you know) “How, I’ve yet to figure out…” in my view is exemplified in this very discussion. Rk said, for example: “I believe the purpose of all this is to teach us to see the meaninglessness of all this and discover the real meaning.” By “all this” he meant the world available to us, cut off from some “better” world. Earlier he said: “I believe that as one grows spiritually, one realises that the real evolution/development is inherent with the shedding of the false sense/illusion of an individual ego.” So, “meaning” lies in leaving the perceivable world around us with our sense of individualism. To find meaning in life is to leave the world in which we live.

And that’s the tragic viewpoint given to us by Plato (and this is all very much rooted in epistemology, and in what is being said the ultimate truth discussion, which I will comment on shortly) with his transcendental world of superior pure concepts above our material world and his allegory of the cave, where we are all chained down looking at shadows. We’re made to feel guilty for everything concerning our sense of individualism, what we can directly perceive and deal with, and the goals and signifigance we attach to them. We’re supossed to find meaning in something undefinable and impossible. So were caught between finding a conceptual, ethical, philosophical meaning and actually being able to live our life concretely.

Hence, on the other side of the coin, you find hedonistic, short-sighted individuals who don’t care about anything other than his immediate whim. How can you blame them? They’ve been told that forgetting themselves and their earthly desires is the key to meaning; who the hell wants to do that?

We talk about the “meaning of life” but we forget what it is that the word “life” refers to. It refers to this. It refers to this thing we do every day, that you OLahav do when you write about business and your non-philosophy interests, it refers to when all of us gets up every morning and pursues what we will enjoy and what furthers our life. We are individuals, our minds are independent, we do perceive actual provable material entities and integrate that info with our mind, and this experience, being all that there is, all that our information can refer to, is what morality should be working on, not teaching us to betray it. And we could deal with this world a lot better and a lot more ethically if we made morality about this world.

“If we get too caught up in what is fleeting and unimportant, we disregard what the long-term holds for us.” That is indeed true, when it comes to whims, when it comes to throwing out all context for whatever you feel like right now. But at the sum of our lives there is nothing but concrete, nothing but the day to day life our primitive senses show us. Ethical systems and long-term, conceptual thinking is great for integrating our knowledge of all these days to get the most out of them as a whole, but the long-term is nothing but a bunch of short-terms and we will not serve it by feeling guilty for feeling immediate pleasure and taking pride in who we are as individuals.

Of course, so long as we believe that sense perception is “primitive” and that conceptualization is possible without it, we’re stuck on this ethical issue. So I should proceed to argue in favor of evidence-reason integration in epistemology so I can back myself up. And for the individual being the primary unit of life to deal with.

Oh, oLahav, to respond to some of your more concrete comments on my view of the meaning of life that you made a while ago…

I’m saying that life itself is the only meaning and that everything else should be judged on the standard of one’s life. So you’re saying: doesn’t that exclude caring about other people. Well, you’re the proprioter of your own life, so you tell me. Are you telling me that other people aren’t a value to your life?

I’m sure you do, of course, but that hypothetical is merely the best way to show what I mean. “Me me me right now” and your own life being your ultimate purpose are two very different things. I believe in rationally pursuing one’s self-interest over the long-term, and that means respecting the rights of all others and building relationships with people you evaluate to be of value to you. And don’t take that as some sort of manipulative exploitative thing. By “value” I don’t mean necessarily financial (although that’s legitimate, so long as you do it in the form of material trade and don’t pretend it’s anything ese) value. I mean that when someone is close to us, such as our friends or romantic partners, defending them and doing things for them is entirely consistent with our life as our own ends. Who would want sacrificial love, love as a favor, love out of duty?

Hi all,

I don’t want to make this discussion a vainful battle ground. Everyone is free to pursue his thoughts and beliefs based on one’s values, stage of development and life experiences. Whatever I had to say on this topic, I have said based on my own perceptions. There will always be people who will buy into one or the other view on the same aspect of life depending on their own stand point where they stand at that moment. I have seen my own view points and perceptions undergo a sea change as I observe my own life and see my development from a child thru’ what I am now. But I respect all this as I believe Life to be a continuous chain of development for the BETTER. That’s why I don’t force my own beliefs upon any one else. I am of the belief that none can teach others any thing unless it is already present in the taught. It’s all a matter of discovery within which comes thru’ one’s own experiences, sooner or later. I respect views from all quarters, howsoever at variance those might appear from the views held by me. Life is not all that easy as it seems! The real development has to pass this test of conflict in every situation. As I said earlier, I conclude with – It’s all a matter of one’s own Realisation!

I apologize if I gave you the impression I was acting in a vainful battle or implying intolerance to your right to pursue your thoughts or beliefs.

I believe there is actually objective in answers in philosophical discussions and explain my view of what those are forcefully, as I believe that’s part of the paradigm of useful free expression. I didn’t mean anything personally antagonizing or to imply that you shouldn’t be contradicting me.

I disagree “that no one can teach others any thing unless it is already present in the taught,” unless you mean available to them with their own independent reason.

“Life is not all that easy as it seems!” I don’t think anyone here or in most places considers life or these issues easy. I don’t think I’m implying these issues are easy by stating there are actual objective, useful answers.

Yes, it’s definitly a matter of one’s own realization. But not all realizations are true or beneficial, although I do believe in another’s right to pursue whichever he or she happens to have even I don’t think it’s a true or beneficial one.

I get your point now, and it makes more sense. I didn’t really think about the ideas of relationships being important while you’re living, but it’s absolutely true of course. Sometimes you sort of take things for granted and forget about them, I guess that’s what I did.

That’s not to say I completely agree though. I mean… Sure, I get up every morning and do my stuff, and that’s life right? But I’m not entirely sure it gives meaning in itself. I personally need a reason to wake up in the morning other than to go to lectures and work on an assignment like I do every day. So I like to believe there’s a better meaning to life… kind of like doing this will get me to accomplish my ultimate goal in life. I don’t know what that goal is right now, but there’s got to be something big (hopefully it’s big anyway, otherwise things could get depressing).

It may not be a correct rationalization, but I think it’s necessary. Otherwise, what’s the point?

Actually this may not really refute any of what you said… there’s probably a good way to combine things. That’s what I like about philosophy, it’s the only place where seemingly incompatible views can somehow be stretched and combined into one.

The idea isn’t that the particular things you happen to be doing are the purpose of your life. Your life as a whole is your purpose. So when we speak of “ultimate purpose” or “ultimate value” you can be refering to, say, your highest career and romantic ideals because those would be the top values to your life. I’m not saying you should want the particulars around you to be your final destination just becuase they happen to be in your life. The justification you’re making for the need for an “ultimate goal” or a “beter meaning to life” is that you personally need one emotionally and psychologically. Whether that’s our of an error of thinking or an existential need is up to debate, but you’re still ultimately doing it for your own life. So these ideal you have, this ambition you have, it’s still in the context of your own life.

“What’s the point?” You are. And if you require an ambitious ideal, sure, but the ultimate meaning is still you. You’re suffering from the fallacy that to be important something must be reducible to a more fundamental value. This is very true of the particulars we do. But you need to stop somewhere. If you say your life is meaningful because it’s really for some wider value, what makes the wider value useful? The wider value is really just pointless, and so would anything that justifies it. You need to start somewhere. The only place, existentially, we can start, is our own lives, because that’s our means of acting and because life is the only entity for which value-direction is required.

“That’s what I like about philosophy, it’s the only place where seemingly incompatible views can somehow be stretched and combined into one.” Possibly. I’ll need some elaboration to see if I agree or disagree.

Ok, NOW I get it. Sorry, I think I misunderstood some of your earlier points. But now I understand your point of view. However, I still support my own views of “important”... I don’t think I want to be the point of my life. At least I don’t want to think that way…

Regarding my last point- you can really look at it from many points of view or examples. My favourite one is the fact that I’m an existentialist Jew, supporting 2 points of view that completely contradict each other, but in my head they work together. Just don’t ask me how, it’s impossible to explain). And I think that when you’re looking for some philosophical answers and find two views or theories that you like but seem to contradict each other, you’ll rationalize a way to believe in both. At least that’s what I find that happens to me…